Todo managers, GTD and what I do
- January 27th, 2010
- Posted in tech . tools
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Efficiency and tools to make me more efficient are kind of an obsession with me. To some extent, it might be such an obsession that it might actually stop me from being efficient
. I try many many many tools and only a few of them survive for more than about a few minutes and even fewer survive longer than about 2-3 weeks. The ones that stay behind are ones that i dont have to change to adapt to but ones that can easily change to adapt to me.
Todo applications are a great example of this type of tool that has gone through a number of different cycles and i have finally ended on one. Once again, i dont think any of these have ever lasted more than a few weeks and maybe some a few months but here is my take on each.
Palm Pre Todo App
I tried to use the device side todo application for doing all my task management because i thought “Hey its with me all the time why not do it there”. Let me tell you this was a disaster in about a few days. I tried really hard but there are just many issues with the solution:
- You cant access it anywhere but on your phone. While i can type fast there, i can type much faster on my desktop
- Most of my tasks are created while on the Mac and only some are created while mobile
- There is no concept of inbox
- Free form notes are not really supported outside of being attached to a task.
- etc etc..
Things
Things is an application from Cultured Code. The application itself is pretty beautiful and is designed around the concept of GTD. You have an inbox and projects and tags and can really just keep a list of things to do very effectively. They have plugins for QuickSilver and with its Applescript interface you can pretty much push anything into it as a task. In fact, i wrote a couple scripts that move entourage mail into it as a task and also apple mail could be moved into it as tasks as well. Since some of my tasks come from email, i thought that this was a great model because i just had to hit a button and boom the email was now a task and it was cleared out of my email inbox. It was now in my task manager inbox. I used tags and projects and tried to keep track of everything, but there were a couple things that finally made me leave this application.
- It did not have a wireless sync to my phone (Palm Pre) and it was not accessible on the web so if my computer was not with me i was SOL.
- I spent too much time organizing my tasks and tags etc and it was just too much organization for me. Most of this was not because of the time to do this it was because when i created the task i knew where it needed to go but things would change over time and task would change tags, projects and just move around. It was not keyboard effective to really manage a task after it was entered into the things.
- Notes are attached to tasks. They are the connected to tasks. Sometimes i am just taking notes and they will become tasks later but for now they are just ideas or thoughts and i want to keep them in a list.
From here i realized i wanted something that made entering the task easy but also available every. I did some quick googling and found
Remember the Milk
This app continues to amaze me. It is fast for a web based application and they have a iphone sync app and a mobile site. I built a WebOS application to get my tasks on my phone. It has TONS of plugins for Quicksilver and every other app to get tasks into the system. You can email it stuff with just a forward it to the app and it would show up in the Inbox of the task manager. It is a super duper task and list management service and have used this for a while now. To make it feel more like a local native application, i used Fluid to make it feel like a native application. While it was easy to get things into the list and tag it and manage it there were other issues:
- It was kind of a pain in the butt to share tasks. They have some model of a shared task list and i tried to use it with my team at work (3 people) and it worked but just did not let me select a set of tasks and cut/paste them into an email and send them to someone that was not part of the RTM system. Everyone has to join just for me to send them a task list.
- Since it was so task/list driven there was no place to just take notes that are free form. You can put notes down that are attached to a task but you cant just keep notes. This was one of the same issues i had with things but at this point i did not realize that was the issue
- At the same time i was starting my startup and tied to use this to manage my project schedule. To say the least this is not a tool to do that because it does not have milestones and time tracking is just a secondary thought.
I continue to use this application cause it is so ubiquitously available but i still end up using another tool to perform some of my basic task management. I also use this tool to keep track of things like books to read, movies to see etc. It ends up being a long list of stuff more than a todo list it is more of a list of things to catalog and reference periodically.
Plain Text Files
While i was happy using RTM, i realized quickly that i was still bringing up textedit and just keep a list of items to do with notes and tasks in a text file. I did this when i was starting a project and things were still pretty free form. I kept a list of ideas there or a list of tasks and would take them and send them into RTM periodically. As i did this more and more, i quickly realized that my best todo list was plain text files. They are not as ubiquitous as RTM so i cant easily add to it or remove from it unless i am on my Mac. I have the text files sitting in drop box synced folder so its kinda available just not very easily on my phone. Text files are pretty awesome cause Quicksilver and Launchbar allow me to just add text to the end easily. Moving things around is easy. Sharing it with others is just an email with a cut and paste and indentation works. The things that are missing are the organization of tags and search.
Task Paper
This is an app that i have only been using for about 2-3 days so ask me again in a few days if this is still good. It seems to be pretty perfect in that it gives me tags/search and projects but it is all just a text file. It just feel natural to use for a programmer or someone who just likes to type out what he is thinking. Notes are easily mixed as in plain text files and at the end it IS just a plain text file. My only downside on it so far is that it is not ubiquitous in terms of access. It is a app that runs on a Mac, i need it on my phone.
Nirvana
What i would love is a web app version of Task Paper that works on the web and my phone and also has a desktop app. The text files are just synced and kept easily accessible everywhere. I guess i can either keep hoping or maybe one day I will just end up building this for myself
Sidenote: Many times I use the tools other than the above to do feature/issue tracking. Currently we are using redmine but i have also used jira and bugzilla. They all have their own issues but have different needs/requirements. I think the one that seemed to be the best for my on this front was thymer but I did not want to pay for something when it was in alpha/beta and we are still a small startup.
Update: 2.8.10
I have been using TaskPaper for a few weeks now and i think it is something that has become a central part of my tool arsenal for todo management. In the comments, you can see that the author of TaskPaper is also providing a iPhone app and text sync tool that seems to be working pretty well. Task Paper seems to be the solution for my free form thoughts and in general for notes. I am using RTM for keeping track of long lists like “books to read” and we are using Redmine for simple project task management. Thanks everyone for the comments and ideas but these are the solutions that seem to work for me for now.
I would recommend checking out http://www.Gtdagenda.com for an online GTD manager.
You can use it to manage your goals, projects and tasks, set next actions and contexts, use checklists, schedules and a calendar.
A mobile version is available too.
Checked this out and its just a bit too much structure for my personal task management solution.
Hi, I’m TaskPaper’s developer. You might have already found it, but I am working on a sync solution for TaskPaper. I’ve built a new website, http://www.simpletext.ws (open source), that’s designed for syncing plain text files, and I’ve built a SimpleText for Mac client to the website that keeps a directory of text files on your mac synced with the site.
In the iPhone App store I’m selling WriteRoom for iPhone, that syncs with SimpleText.ws. Combining these three things you can now access your TaskPaper files on your iPhone as plain text files. Soon I’ll be releasing TaskPaper for iPhone, it will also sync to http://www.simpletext.ws, but it will know about TaskPaper formatting, and so will be able to render and filter your TaskPaper documents as you would expect.
If you do decide to build something for the pre I think it would be great if you made it sync with http://www.simpletext.ws. It’s open source (so you can self host if needed) and has a public api.
Thanks,
Jesse
Jesse, Thanks for the links. This looks like exactly what i want. I am going to play around with it a bit and see how it works for my needs. If you need any help with TaskPaper testing for the iPhone please just tell me. Ill take a look at the WebOS app for simpletext.ws but I was wondering if you have the algorithm that you wrote for TaskPaper in a form that i could reuse? Since pre is all Javascript do you have a TaskPaper on the web solution where i could borrow a js library you are using or something like that?
the RTM users in the room would love to try out the webOS app for RTM
Jess, I have put it on the back burner but when i get a day or two to clean it up then i will send it out. Sorry for the delay
Good list, and i’ve gone through about half of these coming to the same conclusion as you. I think the problem is that all these tools take work to maintain, aren’t ubiquitous, and really don’t give you very much in return. All i wanted was an inbox. Put things in there that i want to act on later, and clear them when I’m done. Maybe add notes to them so I have that when I go to do it. Turns out I already had that, it’s called Gmail.
I set up a separate inbox to show up above my regular inbox that filters to all unread messages from myself. These are notes i’ve jotted down to remember to act on later. It’s easy, it’s ubiquitous, and almost everyone already has it. If you want to go a little deeper and start organizing these entries, gmail has an excellent labelling system. You can organize these jots when you get back to a computer.
My brother wrote a blog post about setting up the extra inboxes (http://mijoro.com/keeping-jots-separate-from-email-in-gmail/), and I wrote a webOS app (http://mijoro.com/jotter) to send messages to yourself in one click. It’s not an actual GTD system, but it’s worked out really well for just keeping track of the stuff i need to do in the minimal amount of time.
Mike, i tried to do it in gmail but i just felt that it was a bit restrictive for my needs. I could not just move tasks around in order or move them to different projects. I could not edit and add notes to a message that i had already sent i would have to then forward it on again. I could definitely see it working but it was still a bit too much management and working around the system instead of using the system. I will check out jotter and see if it changes my view on gmail as a task system.
I haven’t found using Gmail like that to be much extra work to use it like this. It does, however, require you to change the way you expect to perform certain actions.
Instead of moving a task to another area, you check the conversation and choose Move To from the actions bar.
Likewise, to add notes to a message reply to the thread then, instead of pressing Save or Done, mark the conversation as unread.
Using Gmail like this isn’t meant to give you a full on project management system, but using Jotter with Gmail like this does wonders for stopping the things you need to keep in mind from slipping through the cracks.
Plus, as long as you’re the kind of person who keeps his inbox tidy, it’s fairly natural to use. No need to learn a whole new system.
One app for your Palm Pre you’ll probably want to try is Outline Tracker (http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.outlinetracker.outlinetracker&applicationid=1211) , also available in a free version limited to 50 items: http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.outlinetracker.outlinetrackerfree&applicationid=1427
It supports mixing notes freely with tasks, and can act as a general-purpose outliner. Basecamp from 37signals is available as a backend, and we are planning to support others such as RTM.
I think it’s pretty good, but then again, I wrote it.
Thanks for the link, i will try it out and see if i find it more useful. I have not used Basecamp from 37signals for personal todo management but when i tried it for project management it just seemed too restrictive about free notes. I’ll update this comment and the story after playing with the app.
I’ve found that, if I’m using plain text files for tasks, which I sometimes do, moving to Google Docs makes this solution much nicer. You can list recent docs in your Gmail, you can access them from any computer you are on, you can access them and edit them (!) from your phone, and you get all the benefits of HTML-based rich text and plain text files all wrapped up into one. I use Things for my general work tasks, but I use Google Docs when a plain text task list (e.g. for the feature I’m coding right now) works better.
That seems to work pretty well and maybe i am a bit old school, but there is something about having a local text file just there. Its the speed, the permanence, the instant save. I use Google Docs for a ton of stuff but there is just something a bit “jerky” about it. I dont mind dealing with that to have the benefit of HTML etc.. but i just want simple bullets and checking stuff off in a text file. A local text file just cant be beat.
Thanks for the link, i will try it out and see if i find it more useful. I have not used Basecamp from 37signals for personal todo management but when i tried it for project management it just seemed too restrictive about free notes. I’ll update this comment and the story after playing with the app.
Bruce glad you found the link and definitely tell me what you found about the use of the app. I am still sticking with it so far.